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Dev Chat 01/20/2011

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Created on: Apr 6, 2011 4:11 PM by Nick Yeates - Last Modified:  Apr 6, 2011 4:17 PM by Nick Yeates
[20-Jan-2011 10:55:59] <nyeates> btw: dev chat from last week about avalon info, I just uploaded it at
[20-Jan-2011 10:56:52] <rmatte> so who are our guest devs for today's session?
[20-Jan-2011 10:57:00] <Sam-I-Am> morning folks
[20-Jan-2011 10:57:21] <ddreggors> odd no it does not
[20-Jan-2011 10:57:21] <davetoo> feh: sendto error Host localhost and localhost.localdomain are both using ip
[20-Jan-2011 10:57:23] <Sam-I-Am> rmatte: you're our guest dev
[20-Jan-2011 10:57:33] <rmatte> that's news to me lol
[20-Jan-2011 10:57:35] <ddreggors> but it is actually running and serving pages
[20-Jan-2011 10:57:49] <Simon4> ddreggors: I think I know what it is
[20-Jan-2011 10:57:52] * Simon4 suddenly clicks
[20-Jan-2011 10:58:18] <Simon4> run netstat -lntp |grep 80 and pastie the output? (on the server that's running httpd)
[20-Jan-2011 10:58:19] <rmatte> davetoo: dumbest error ever lol
[20-Jan-2011 10:58:42] <nyeates> Devs will be incoming in a min, ill announce
[20-Jan-2011 10:58:57] <rmatte> INCOMING!
[20-Jan-2011 10:58:59] * rmatte ducks
[20-Jan-2011 10:59:24] * Simon4 bets ipv6 is enabled and httpd is listening on ipv6:*:80, not ipv4 so it doesn't turn up under the ipv4 listening socket MIB
[20-Jan-2011 10:59:26] <davetoo> rmatte: yeah, that's what you get with a bone-stock RHEL install
[20-Jan-2011 10:59:26] <ddreggors> tcp        0      0 :::80                       :::*                        LISTEN      -
[20-Jan-2011 10:59:29] <Simon4> yup
[20-Jan-2011 10:59:34] <davetoo> oh
[20-Jan-2011 10:59:37] <rmatte> Simon4: ah, yeh that makes sense
[20-Jan-2011 10:59:41] <davetoo> Simon4: w00t!
[20-Jan-2011 10:59:50] <rmatte> aloha kells
[20-Jan-2011 10:59:54] * Simon4 has hit his head against this for the best part of half a day before
[20-Jan-2011 10:59:59] <davetoo> me too
[20-Jan-2011 11:00:00] <kells> G'day!
[20-Jan-2011 11:00:01] <rmatte> haha
[20-Jan-2011 11:00:08] <Sam-I-Am> howdy
[20-Jan-2011 11:00:12] <davetoo> I think I created a trac ticket for it
[20-Jan-2011 11:00:27] <davetoo> tcp6 causes trouble
[20-Jan-2011 11:00:47] <Simon4> ddreggors: the solution is to disable ipv6 fully on the server
[20-Jan-2011 11:00:51] <Simon4> not just leave it unconfigured
[20-Jan-2011 11:01:00] <davetoo> what if he can't?
[20-Jan-2011 11:01:07] <davetoo> What if it's actually in use?
[20-Jan-2011 11:01:18] <rmatte> ipv6 in use? blasphemy
[20-Jan-2011 11:01:23] <ddreggors> exactly
[20-Jan-2011 11:01:25] <Sam-I-Am> whats this ipv6 thing?
[20-Jan-2011 11:01:27] <Sam-I-Am> lol
[20-Jan-2011 11:01:29] <ddreggors> no cant unconfigure
[20-Jan-2011 11:01:35] <Sam-I-Am> <- network has run full v6 since 2003
[20-Jan-2011 11:01:42] <ddreggors> cant disable sorry
[20-Jan-2011 11:01:46] <davetoo> I have used it in production several times
[20-Jan-2011 11:01:49] <Simon4> is there an ipv6 listening port mib?
[20-Jan-2011 11:01:51] <rmatte> Sam-I-Am: you are the borg
[20-Jan-2011 11:02:05] <Sam-I-Am> rmatte: resistance is futile
[20-Jan-2011 11:02:09] <Sam-I-Am> as is remembering ip addresses
[20-Jan-2011 11:02:11] <nyeates> Hola everyone! We have magnificent John Causey, the awesome Kells Kerney, and the wonderful Chris Parlette who is onlooking between support cases
[20-Jan-2011 11:02:11] <rmatte> so I'm told
[20-Jan-2011 11:02:13] <rmatte> lol
[20-Jan-2011 11:02:29] * Sam-I-Am has a support case open about lots of devices in a group
[20-Jan-2011 11:02:40] <davetoo> so ...
[20-Jan-2011 11:02:44] <rmatte> Sam-I-Am: which should probably apply to any organizer
[20-Jan-2011 11:02:44] <davetoo> 3.1.x?
[20-Jan-2011 11:02:50] <Sam-I-Am> rmatte: yeah, i think so
[20-Jan-2011 11:03:12] <Sam-I-Am> the reason for me to go to 3.x will be enhanced reporting, and access control to said reports.
[20-Jan-2011 11:03:17] <davetoo> 3.1.0 in a week? Month?
[20-Jan-2011 11:03:24] <pmcguire> \nick ptmcg
[20-Jan-2011 11:03:32] <davetoo> d'oh
[20-Jan-2011 11:03:33] pmcguire is now known as ptmcg
[20-Jan-2011 11:03:37] <rmatte> wrong slash muahaha
[20-Jan-2011 11:03:38] <ptmcg> oof!
[20-Jan-2011 11:03:39] <kells> Looking at 3.1.0 around Feb-ish
[20-Jan-2011 11:03:43] <Sam-I-Am> must be a dos user
[20-Jan-2011 11:03:47] <davetoo> kells: thanks
[20-Jan-2011 11:03:48] <rmatte> yeh, seriously
[20-Jan-2011 11:03:49] <rmatte>
[20-Jan-2011 11:03:53] <ddreggors> httpd OSProcess false down alerts
[20-Jan-2011 11:03:58] <Sam-I-Am> kells: whats the big fixes in 3.1?
[20-Jan-2011 11:04:00] <ptmcg> you guys are harsh!
[20-Jan-2011 11:04:00] <ddreggors> any clue there?
[20-Jan-2011 11:04:04] <rmatte> hehe
[20-Jan-2011 11:04:17] <nyeates> So the latest info on 3.1.0 is that it is coming soon....we are doing internal beta testing for it and edging towards a date yet though
[20-Jan-2011 11:04:25] <kells> The new reporting engine etc is (atm) an add-on feature for Enterprise only.
[20-Jan-2011 11:04:38] <Sam-I-Am> kells: does it cost more for current ent customers?
[20-Jan-2011 11:04:55] <rmatte> Sam-I-Am: was just about to ask that
[20-Jan-2011 11:05:00] <kells> Reporting is an extra cost item, and does not come bundled.
[20-Jan-2011 11:05:01] <nyeates> there were 60 some bug fixes in 3.1 a week ago, though they may have dealt it down to less fixes...despite, 3.1 will be a lot of improvement and bug kills for the community and enterprise
[20-Jan-2011 11:05:13] <Sam-I-Am> well, that should be fun to justify
[20-Jan-2011 11:05:22] <kells> The first release will be for a select group of customers to sanity check, and then a GA release.
[20-Jan-2011 11:05:22] <davetoo> nyeates: thanks
[20-Jan-2011 11:05:37] <rmatte> kells: any idea of pricing?
[20-Jan-2011 11:05:39] <kells> We're still working on some of the fixes in 3.1
[20-Jan-2011 11:05:45] <davetoo> kells: When you say "reporting is an extra-cost item",
[20-Jan-2011 11:06:09] <davetoo> we're not losing any of the existing "functionality"?
[20-Jan-2011 11:06:13] <davetoo> such as it is
[20-Jan-2011 11:06:13] <kells> I have no idea about pricing -- you'd have to talk to a sales guy in a couple of weeks as I don't think it's been nailed down yet.
[20-Jan-2011 11:06:20] <zenChild> Anyone have issues running commands against a device from 'Components' -> 'IP Services' -> 'Administration' in 3.0.3?  I'm getting the error screen when trying to run anything from there.
[20-Jan-2011 11:06:25] <jcausey> @sam-I-am: if you're looking for specifics, core side tickets that will be in 3.1are listed at
[20-Jan-2011 11:06:29] <nyeates> existing functionality in reporting is staying
[20-Jan-2011 11:06:35] <kells> No loss of functionality for existing reports.  If they worked before, they should continue to work.
[20-Jan-2011 11:07:03] <Sam-I-Am> jcausey: thanks
[20-Jan-2011 11:07:16] <kokey> hmmm
[20-Jan-2011 11:07:27] <kokey> does this look funny to anyone at first glance? :
[20-Jan-2011 11:07:28] <kokey> CDEF:percent=ifHCOutOctets,1000,/,100,*
[20-Jan-2011 11:07:28] <kokey> AREA:percent#00cc0099:utillah
[20-Jan-2011 11:07:29] <kokey> DEF:ifHCOutOctets=rrdPath/ifHCOutOctets_ifHCOutOctets.rrd:ds0:AVERAGE
[20-Jan-2011 11:10:36] * Sam-I-Am sees line noise. or perl.
[20-Jan-2011 11:10:48] <kokey> haha
[20-Jan-2011 11:11:45] <rmatte> kokey: no it doesn't
[20-Jan-2011 11:11:55] <davetoo> So on this brand new 3.0.3 RPM install,
[20-Jan-2011 11:11:57] <Simon4> nothing to laugh about there
[20-Jan-2011 11:11:58] <Sam-I-Am> seems fine at a glance
[20-Jan-2011 11:12:05] <davetoo> when I go to Infrastructure->Processes,
[20-Jan-2011 11:12:07] <davetoo> I see nothing.
[20-Jan-2011 11:12:14] <davetoo> No processes are loaded.
[20-Jan-2011 11:12:26] <Simon4> davetoo: just wait longer?
[20-Jan-2011 11:12:31] <rmatte> davetoo: click on the search box and hit enter
[20-Jan-2011 11:12:39] <nyeates> Sam-I-Am: Some "big" bug fixes might be: shift-select events is possible, zenaws ec2 monitoring scales properly, IE 8 event viewing fixes, and a possible fix for being able to copy a template properly
[20-Jan-2011 11:12:57] <kokey> ok so rrdPath is a cool thing to use?
[20-Jan-2011 11:12:57] <Simon4> template copy should be a definite fix, not a possible one
[20-Jan-2011 11:13:12] <davetoo> Shouldn't I see a set of default processes to monitor or not monitor?
[20-Jan-2011 11:13:21] <Simon4> kokey: where did you get rrdPath from ?
[20-Jan-2011 11:13:21] <Sam-I-Am> kokey: i tend to do this
[20-Jan-2011 11:13:21] <Sam-I-Am> DEF:Inbound-raw=${here/fullRRDPath}/ifInOctets_ifInOctets.rrd:ds0:MAX
[20-Jan-2011 11:13:27] <nyeates> Simon4: depends on if we can fit it in...otherwise it will come in the next version, or as a patch
[20-Jan-2011 11:14:00] <Sam-I-Am> nyeates: cool... the template copy thing is a big one.  i spent way too much time in zmi doing that when i was testing 3
[20-Jan-2011 11:14:10] <rmatte> davetoo: actually that makes perfect sense, it was like that in 2.5 as well
[20-Jan-2011 11:14:10] <kokey> Simon4: don't know if i add a non-custom graph point that's what it fills in when i view the graph commands
[20-Jan-2011 11:14:18] <rmatte> davetoo: you have to add the processes you want to monitor by hand
[20-Jan-2011 11:14:32] <Sam-I-Am> kokey: you'll want the 'here' thing.
[20-Jan-2011 11:14:34] <davetoo> no more defaults?
[20-Jan-2011 11:14:41] <rmatte> davetoo: the only things that pre-exist in Zenoss are windows services (as it picks them up), and IP Services
[20-Jan-2011 11:14:55] <rmatte> davetoo: I never remember there being defaults for processes, I had to add all of my own
[20-Jan-2011 11:15:11] <Jane_Curry> Allelujia to being able to shift-select a bunch of events!
[20-Jan-2011 11:15:22] <davetoo> maybe I somehow carried them forward from my 0.99 or 1.x installs
[20-Jan-2011 11:15:26] <rmatte> davetoo: I entered all of the exes, and linux processes that I wanted to monitor by hand
[20-Jan-2011 11:15:33] <davetoo> in a zenpack or something
[20-Jan-2011 11:15:45] <davetoo> interesting
[20-Jan-2011 11:15:47] <rmatte> davetoo: If you upgrade the ones you already have set carry forward
[20-Jan-2011 11:15:50] <kokey> if I put in the 'here' it does this: DEF:ifHCOutOctets-raw=__render_with_namespace__:ds0:AVERAGE
[20-Jan-2011 11:15:51] <rmatte> so that's a safe assumption
[20-Jan-2011 11:16:21] <Sam-I-Am> kokey: thats what it should do methinks
[20-Jan-2011 11:17:49] <kokey> now i just wish really that i could get the RRD errors when it tries to render it
[20-Jan-2011 11:17:59] <nyeates> Jane_Curry: shift-select: we implemented it to the best of our abilities....I think that it works well within certain # of events that are being shift-selected....otherwise if you scroll out of the cached # of events, I think it messes be aware of the possible limitation
[20-Jan-2011 11:18:08] <kokey> then it could tell me stuff like missing DEF or file or whatever
[20-Jan-2011 11:18:46] <kokey> got it, in the event.log!
[20-Jan-2011 11:19:29] <Sam-I-Am> kokey: yep
[20-Jan-2011 11:19:38] <Sam-I-Am> they're still somewhat vague depending on what happened
[20-Jan-2011 11:19:47] <kokey> error: invalid rpn expression in: ifHCOutOctets-raw,1000,/,100,*
[20-Jan-2011 11:20:03] <davetoo> zenpatch should work for rpm installs, yes?
[20-Jan-2011 11:20:07] <davetoo> (within reason)
[20-Jan-2011 11:20:20] <kokey> hmmmm so something about CDEF:percent=ifHCOutOctets-raw,1000,/,100,* is fishy
[20-Jan-2011 11:20:28] <kells> davetoo: yes, zenpatch works for RPM installs
[20-Jan-2011 11:20:32] <davetoo> I need the fixes to zenctl for HA-linux
[20-Jan-2011 11:20:51] <nyeates> kokey: that rpn...can u write the arithmetic version of what u are trying to calc?
[20-Jan-2011 11:21:13] <davetoo> you can debug the RPM in 'dc'
[20-Jan-2011 11:21:21] <davetoo> RPN, that is
[20-Jan-2011 11:21:25] <kells> However, zenpatch essentially only works with directories under $ZENHOME/Products, so things like $ZENHOME/bin aren't patchable.
[20-Jan-2011 11:21:39] <phonegi> jane: a little late here. did I miss much?
[20-Jan-2011 11:21:40] <davetoo> hmm
[20-Jan-2011 11:21:41] <kokey> nyeates: well what i want to do is ( ifHCOutOctets-raw/1000 ) * 100
[20-Jan-2011 11:21:53] <kokey> nyeates: but what i want to do later is replace the 1000 with here.speed
[20-Jan-2011 11:22:14] <davetoo> kells: right, that patch is certainly going to be against .../inst/bin/zenctl
[20-Jan-2011 11:22:28] <kokey> nyeates: i just put a number in there for now so i only debug one thing at a time
[20-Jan-2011 11:22:43] <Jane_Curry> <phonegi> not yet - other good threads running so not jumped in yet...
[20-Jan-2011 11:23:52] <nyeates> kokey: put a number in for that first variable 'ifHCOutOctets-raw'
[20-Jan-2011 11:23:56] <nyeates> see if that is even allwoed
[20-Jan-2011 11:24:34] <nyeates> kokey: where is this expression going in? custom graph definition?
[20-Jan-2011 11:24:50] <kokey> nyeates: hehe... error: rpn expressions without DEF or CDEF variables are not supported
[20-Jan-2011 11:25:16] <kokey> nyeates: yeah i built a custom one, but it's the v3 interface so i put in the DEF, CDEF, and AREA in as custom graph points
[20-Jan-2011 11:26:19] <nyeates> anyone know custom graph defs good? Im not sure I can be of further help
[20-Jan-2011 11:26:31] <Sam-I-Am> i do, but apparently my stuff in v2 doesnt work well in v3
[20-Jan-2011 11:26:34] <kokey> it's ok i think i can probably fiddle this one to function
[20-Jan-2011 11:26:39] <Sam-I-Am> i was helping earlier...
[20-Jan-2011 11:26:46] <themactech> I have a question on component templates
[20-Jan-2011 11:26:50] <kokey> yeah if i just have a blanket definition it actually breaks the whole monitoring template
[20-Jan-2011 11:26:57] <themactech> I posted this in forums but got no answer
[20-Jan-2011 11:27:02] <kokey> i think i'm close now
[20-Jan-2011 11:27:06] <themactech> can components have sub-components?
[20-Jan-2011 11:27:08] <kokey> now that i have found the log
[20-Jan-2011 11:28:22] <phonegi> themactech: structurally, yes. I have created a device that has a relation that contains a component that contains another relation; however in v3 these all show up under "Components"
[20-Jan-2011 11:29:16] <nyeates> Jane_Curry: I got your message that you have an initial version of "Creating Zenoss ZenPacks" doc... including that it has a section on new 3.0 GUI....that is great news! I really want to check it out
[20-Jan-2011 11:30:17] <Jane_Curry> Get it from
[20-Jan-2011 11:30:42] <phonegi> nyeates, jane: I've got a lot of research that I'd like to contribute, just haven't found the time to write it up. Jane, definitely going to take a look.
[20-Jan-2011 11:30:48] <Jane_Curry> I have a link to it in th users forum and a bunch of questions at
[20-Jan-2011 11:31:10] <nyeates> I would advise anyone else involved in zenpack development to check out Janes docs. They have always been top notch.
[20-Jan-2011 11:31:30] <phonegi> nyeates: Second that!!!
[20-Jan-2011 11:31:47] <Jane_Curry> Blush
[20-Jan-2011 11:32:32] <Jane_Curry> The doc is now big - over 100 pages - but the new Zenoss 3 section is pages 75-97 if folk want a quick skim
[20-Jan-2011 11:32:49] <davetoo> do I have it correctly that ZCA does some of the UI generation automagically?
[20-Jan-2011 11:32:49] <rmatte> Jane_Curry: I most certainly will
[20-Jan-2011 11:32:50] <phonegi> Jane, I've got some info regarding interfaces that I can post
[20-Jan-2011 11:34:21] * Simon4 downloads for a read
[20-Jan-2011 11:34:53] <phonegi> davetoo: I believe ZCA adds/filters content when a page is loaded. ZCML allows us to control that content.
[20-Jan-2011 11:35:23] <themactech> Jane's doc is all i have to work with right now
[20-Jan-2011 11:35:29] <themactech> trying to figure out components
[20-Jan-2011 11:35:49] <phonegi> I'm just learning how to use the ZCML to manipulate ExtJS content.
[20-Jan-2011 11:36:01] <davetoo> pydev doesn't like zcml
[20-Jan-2011 11:36:16] <nyeates> themactech: official docs (in addition to dev docs and APIs) are at
[20-Jan-2011 11:37:30] <nyeates> they may not help you with what u are asking...but its worth a look
[20-Jan-2011 11:37:35] <themactech> I have all the official docs, but the almost never cover what I need to know
[20-Jan-2011 11:38:00] <themactech> Making custom components and component templates is my top priority now
[20-Jan-2011 11:38:28] <themactech> I was working on getting all event data from remote locations to a central NOC via port 25 (emails) and I finally got that to work
[20-Jan-2011 11:38:39] <themactech> now i tackle components and putting them in zenpacks
[20-Jan-2011 11:38:56] <themactech> Also, I still want to know how to add fields to the zenoss database
[20-Jan-2011 11:39:12] <themactech> I've asked this before and got no answer, just in case someone is feeling inspired today
[20-Jan-2011 11:39:25] <phonegi> themactech: Good starting point is Egor's deviceAdvDetail zenpack.
[20-Jan-2011 11:39:31] <themactech> I want to add a warranty expiration date and warranty status field to the database
[20-Jan-2011 11:39:53] <themactech> Egor knows this stuff inside out but you have to reverse engineer all his stuff because he doesn't document any of it
[20-Jan-2011 11:40:38] <themactech> I have gone through his zenpacks but the Bridge MIB zenpack with Jane's guide is my best bet so far
[20-Jan-2011 11:40:42] <phonegi> themactech: yep. That's how we learn most of it. Trying to finish my stuff which I document heavily
[20-Jan-2011 11:40:57] <davetoo> I have a request:
[20-Jan-2011 11:41:03] <themactech> I have documented everything I do but it is more specific to my stuff
[20-Jan-2011 11:41:07] <davetoo> PLEASE package ipython
[20-Jan-2011 11:41:22] <davetoo> though it would require adding libreadline-dev as a dependency
[20-Jan-2011 11:41:41] <Simon4> Jane_Curry: Just read quickly through the v3 specific stuff, that's really excellent!
[20-Jan-2011 11:45:05] <rmatte> nice, I just figured out what to change to fix the stupid looking paths when "Overriding" templates lol
[20-Jan-2011 11:46:19] <Jane_Curry> Bye Simon....:)
[20-Jan-2011 11:46:24] <jcausey> @davetoo -- most of us devs use it while working on the product already; i'll get an enhancement ticket in the system and see if we can get it bundled in Avalon.
[20-Jan-2011 11:47:01] <Simon4> Jane_Curry: that doc's going to save me a bunch of pain and reverse engineering in the future
[20-Jan-2011 11:47:22] * Simon4 had been putting off "learning" the v3 ui stuff as it was all a bit terrifying
[20-Jan-2011 11:48:12] <nyeates> ok, so who wants to beta test 3.1? I can take like 6 people
[20-Jan-2011 11:48:18] <Jane_Curry> I still think its terrifying - the more you look the deeper it gets!
[20-Jan-2011 11:48:19] <Simon4> me
[20-Jan-2011 11:48:27] <Simon4> (at nyeates)
[20-Jan-2011 11:48:34] <Jane_Curry> nyeates - timescale?
[20-Jan-2011 11:48:43] <nyeates> now...well, soon
[20-Jan-2011 11:48:59] <nyeates> when I get the bits hosted somewhere
[20-Jan-2011 11:49:12] <nyeates> the version already exists
[20-Jan-2011 11:49:15] <rmatte> nyeates: I'll do it
[20-Jan-2011 11:49:26] <Jane_Curry> <themactech> - grab the new doc - it has LOTS more on device components with Z 3
[20-Jan-2011 11:49:53] <Simon4> themactech: what Jane said, the doc will really help you
[20-Jan-2011 11:50:05] <themactech> I just downloaded it and sent it to the printer
[20-Jan-2011 11:50:16] <themactech> It's my new bible
[20-Jan-2011 11:50:21] <Jane_Curry> nyeates: Can't do it next week - probably could starting the week after
[20-Jan-2011 11:50:32] <themactech> that says a lot considering I'm an atheist
[20-Jan-2011 11:50:36] * Simon4 is off work for a month next week, so skiing/beta testing/zenpack coding will be on the agenda
[20-Jan-2011 11:50:59] <Jane_Curry> Now lets keep religion out of this! We have enough trouble with ZCML
[20-Jan-2011 11:51:03] <nyeates> where you going skiing? in UK?
[20-Jan-2011 11:51:07] <Simon4> all hail our ZCML overlords
[20-Jan-2011 11:51:14] <Simon4> nyeates: Jackson Hole, Wyoming
[20-Jan-2011 11:51:29] * nyeates jealous :-)
[20-Jan-2011 11:51:36] <themactech> So does anyone have any ideas on how to add extra fields in the database, and I am not talking about zproperties since those can't be accessed by a modeler
[20-Jan-2011 11:52:07] <nyeates> in which database
[20-Jan-2011 11:52:10] <themactech> I would want to add fields in the same category as the comments or rack space info
[20-Jan-2011 11:52:14] <Simon4> themactech: as in "add extra attributes to the device object" ?
[20-Jan-2011 11:52:19] <Jane_Curry> Any devs there provide answers to the Zenoss 3 GUI questions posted at
[20-Jan-2011 11:52:55] <themactech> I would want these fields added to the base /device branch since I would want to apply them to all devices
[20-Jan-2011 11:53:05] <themactech> warranty management is a big issue for our clients
[20-Jan-2011 11:53:14] <Jane_Curry> BTW - most of the initial deep digging in that new Zenoss 3 section comes from phonegi so thank him
[20-Jan-2011 11:53:17] <Simon4> themactech: you can monkeypatch them in
[20-Jan-2011 11:53:22] <Simon4> as part of your zenpack
[20-Jan-2011 11:53:24] <themactech> for most vendors, if you let a warranty lapse you cannot re-establish coverage
[20-Jan-2011 11:53:49] <themactech> can you point me to any doc on monkeypatching those in?
[20-Jan-2011 11:55:21] <nyeates> themactech: look around on the community (and outside for docs on seems like i recall *something* already existing...I cannot recall if it was about events or devices though, and where I saw it
[20-Jan-2011 11:56:04] <nyeates> any more takers on beta 3.1 testing?
[20-Jan-2011 11:56:19] <nyeates> ive got simon and rmatte
[20-Jan-2011 11:56:44] <Jane_Curry> Me if it can run over the next 3 weeks
[20-Jan-2011 11:57:17] <rmatte> nyeates: do you have it available in stack installer form though?
[20-Jan-2011 11:58:01] <Jane_Curry> Nota Bene!!  Anyone who has pulled todays version of the doc, it is not updated beyond the Zenoss 3 section - it is very DRAFT
[20-Jan-2011 11:58:17] <jplouis> Jane: The interfaces and infos are related/linked
[20-Jan-2011 11:58:21] <Sam-I-Am> id love to beta, but i'm trying to roll out 2.5 here :/
[20-Jan-2011 11:58:25] <Jane_Curry> I will post at when the next draft is complete
[20-Jan-2011 11:59:00] <jplouis> Jane: they are used to describe an object in the domain so that the UI can generate the pages and or forms for the object
[20-Jan-2011 11:59:01] <nyeates> rmatte: I do not think so. I think it comes in RPM format
[20-Jan-2011 11:59:40] <Jane_Curry> jplouis: I know they are related / linked - I'm looking for a human description of what these things are and how/why they are linked
[20-Jan-2011 11:59:41] <rmatte> nyeates: ah, then I'm out
[20-Jan-2011 12:00:05] <rmatte> nyeates: can't properly test the upgrade against my existing lab box without a stack install
[20-Jan-2011 12:00:17] <Jane_Curry> Sorry - I also need a stack install
[20-Jan-2011 12:00:27] <nyeates> heh ok :-) ill let you know if it changes
[20-Jan-2011 12:00:29] * Simon4 is happy with rpm
[20-Jan-2011 12:00:32] <jplouis> Jane:  configure.zcml binds or associates the info object with the domain object
[20-Jan-2011 12:00:58] <rmatte> k
[20-Jan-2011 12:01:08] <jplouis> Jane: The interface describes the attributes that are available and contains type information about the attributes
[20-Jan-2011 12:02:24] <nyeates> Sam-I-Am: what version are you on now? 2.4?
[20-Jan-2011 12:02:26] <jplouis> Jane:  for example in the ZenJMX zenpack the is an info and interface for the ZenJMX datasource.  With out the interface the UI wouldn't be able to generate the form to modify/create the zenjmx datasources
[20-Jan-2011 12:02:45] <Sam-I-Am> nyeates: current install is 2.4.1, but i'm rolling out 2.5.2 now
[20-Jan-2011 12:02:53] <Sam-I-Am> nyeates: its a new install, so no cruft from 2.4
[20-Jan-2011 12:03:04] <Sam-I-Am> once this is rolled out and working, i will start testing 3.1
[20-Jan-2011 12:03:16] <jplouis> Jane: The same is also true for components
[20-Jan-2011 12:03:18] <Sam-I-Am> 3.0 just didnt seem as polished when i did my testing
[20-Jan-2011 12:03:19] <nyeates> if your doing new install, why not go to 3.x.....already started i guess?
[20-Jan-2011 12:03:19] <Jane_Curry> jplouis: but the file can be a a "barebones" effectively dummy with no attributes in it (sez Chap 14 of the Dev Guide)
[20-Jan-2011 12:04:00] <Sam-I-Am> nyeates: i think i tested with 3.0.1, which was... kinda meh
[20-Jan-2011 12:04:11] <Jane_Curry> jplouis: it is the that actually has the attributes with the ProxyProperty in it
[20-Jan-2011 12:04:44] <Simon4> we still have massive performance issues with the 3.x series so are still on 2.5 for our main install
[20-Jan-2011 12:04:56] <jplouis> Jane: yes, the interface is more of a definition with zope schema information in it
[20-Jan-2011 12:05:08] <Jane_Curry> jplouis: See my confusion??
[20-Jan-2011 12:05:12] * Simon4 has a secondary 3.0.3 install though which can wear some 3.1 goodness
[20-Jan-2011 12:05:20] <Simon4> and I can test it against a backup of our epic install
[20-Jan-2011 12:05:29] <jplouis> the schema information helps generate the form field with the appropriate types,  boolean, ints, strings etc...
[20-Jan-2011 12:05:55] <jplouis> along with the appropriate types it allows the UI to do basic validation based on the types
[20-Jan-2011 12:06:35] <nyeates> Simon4: we will definetely use your valuable input
[20-Jan-2011 12:06:49] <Jane_Curry> jplouis: and If I have a "barebones" then the real schema work is done is my JavaScript resources file???????
[20-Jan-2011 12:07:27] themactech_ is now known as themactech
[20-Jan-2011 12:07:38] <jplouis> can you give me an example of barebones?
[20-Jan-2011 12:07:39] <nyeates> stack 3.1 beta is posible...i will get to each of you in a min
[20-Jan-2011 12:09:05] <rmatte> nyeates: I'm working on patching the stupid looking path names for template overriding (and the root path missing), I'll submit a patch for it via a trac ticket when I'm done
[20-Jan-2011 12:10:19] <rmatte> I think I finally got the paths displaying properly... the root path will be interesting
[20-Jan-2011 12:11:14] <phonegi> jane: maybe this helps a little regarding interfaces:
[20-Jan-2011 12:11:22] <nyeates> if there is a ticket for this, submit the changes in comments....or create a new tick if not existing
[20-Jan-2011 12:11:32] <nyeates> ^ to rmatte
[20-Jan-2011 12:12:06] <rmatte> will do
[20-Jan-2011 12:12:16] <rmatte> I don't know if there's a ticket yet, I'll have to hunt
[20-Jan-2011 12:12:18] <rmatte>
[20-Jan-2011 12:12:31] <Jane_Curry> jplouis: page 85 of new doc at
[20-Jan-2011 12:12:52] <Jane_Curry> largely taken from Chap 14 of Dev Guide
[20-Jan-2011 12:13:11] <Jane_Curry> stack beta is good
[20-Jan-2011 12:14:25] <phonegi> jane: p85 - for field is defined like a python import. To make the adapter "for" the class A defined in file, it would be for ".F.A"
[20-Jan-2011 12:16:05] <jplouis> Jane:  The interface should generally not be empty, regardless of what the dev guid says.  Any properties you are exposing in the info object should be "defined" in the corresponding interface.  Nothing enforces it but it is good practice and like I mentioned earlier the schema information in the interface allows zenoss to glean information about the properties and display the correctly
[20-Jan-2011 12:16:42] <Jane_Curry> phonegi: thanks for interfaces ref - looks good.  Now need to find a similar common sense answer to
[20-Jan-2011 12:17:37] <phonegi> Jane:  abstracts info that will be displayed to the user from data saved as part of the component
[20-Jan-2011 12:17:47] <jplouis> Jane: sorry if I'm being obtuse, I really want to answer your question
[20-Jan-2011 12:20:29] <jplouis> The infos are zope adapters that proxy domain objects.  And as phonegi said, the info objects are what is used to display data to the users
[20-Jan-2011 12:21:17] <nyeates> Thanks all for the dev chat....this concludes it! See you all in 2 weeks. Same bat time, same bat channel.
[20-Jan-2011 12:21:24] <jplouis> We use infos for domain objects all over the place from, components to devices to datasources
[20-Jan-2011 12:21:38] <phonegi> Jane: It allows you to write code for display that does not need to be part of the class definition
[20-Jan-2011 12:22:04] <Jane_Curry> phonegi: thanks - penny drops about "for" field!
[20-Jan-2011 12:22:46] <Jane_Curry> jplouis: Sorry - not accusing you of being obtuse at all.  I am slow on these things....
[20-Jan-2011 12:23:13] <jplouis> I just know we devs can be obtuse and too technical
[20-Jan-2011 12:24:15] <jplouis> got to go, I'll look at your questions on the forum
[20-Jan-2011 12:25:42] <phonegi> Thanks all! Jane: will be in touch.
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